023: Oldest College Kid Ever with Gene Wojciechowski

It’s too much fun. Why leave?  Sportswriter Gene Wojciechowski graduated from college 40 years ago, but never really left.  He’s a fixture on ESPN’s College GameDay, SportsCenter and other platforms.  At the heart of it all, Gene’s a serial reader and writer.   There was no bedtime hour as a child.  He fell asleep at whatever hour it was with a book in his hands.  Still does.  Gene is the author of 10 books, the most recent No Excuses: The Making of a Head Coach with former Oklahoma University coach Bob Stoops, a national championship winner, who painfully but lovingly told his wife he could no longer do it.  At the time of this airing, No Excuses is the #1 football book on Amazon.

Full Podcast Transcript

[00:00:11] Recorded live from the Sweet Tea Studios in Wellesley Massachusetts. You’re listening to the podcast, Why I Read Nonfiction. Hosted by broadcaster and author of The Perfect Catch and Follow the Dog Home. Here’s Kevin Walsh.

[00:00:29] (Kevin) Hello and welcome to the program. We have a good one for you. Today we have Gene Wojciechowski, who is a reporter for a College Gameday on ESPN. He is also the author of his latest book, No Excuses: The Making of a Head Coach, which he co-authored with Bob Stoops, legendary coach at Oklahoma. Gene and I play golf many years ago and perhaps we’ll talk about that. But as we often do, we just talk about the life story of somebody as a reader before they became an author or something like that. Big thanks to Nirvana on beautiful Cape Cod for sponsoring the program. If you’re looking for a great spring summer fall vacation getaway, a newly restored home on a beautiful freshwater kettle pond, perfect for swimming, incredible for fishing, a lot of fish in there. I spend a lot of time there. Subscribe to the podcast. It’s easy and it’s free and also liberating. That is how we grow. All right. So let’s welcome to the program. Gene Wojciechowski. Gene, you’re joining us from where exactly?

[00:01:31] (Gene) I’m in beautiful Ames, Iowa. And I’m working on stories for college game day. And, you know, as you know, we pretty much go to a different place every week. So it’s a real it’s a great chance to kind of see America, see college campuses. I’ve been doing this for a long time and I never get tired of crossing another place, off of my list of campuses. So there’s just there’s something about the college game that I just love. And that, you know, even the NFL is great is as it is, I just don’t think it compares to what we see on a weekly basis on this show.

[00:02:06] (Kevin) Well, the thing that I’ve always seen when I go to college campuses, either in a professional capacity or just personally, I always see places of hope because you have kids there that are proud of what they had to do to get there. You have parents that they’re probably sweating out what the tuition bill is going to be, but they see their children and they feel like they’re putting them on the best path forward so they can have a good future. Do you get that kind of same feeling? And does it keep you young being around the younger crowd?

[00:02:38] (Kevin) Well, I guess I love going to college campuses for a lot of the reasons you just mentioned, and part of it is, you know, nobody gets old there. I mean, it’s you know, they’re a new class of freshmen come through every year.  And I guess the only people who really get older are the professors and the assistant professors and the coaches. But it is it’s just it’s invigorating. And it’s. I don’t know. There’s nothing to me, there’s nothing better than just walking around a college campus and just kind of hanging out and seeing it and feeling the energy and the vibe, especially on a football weekend.

[00:03:20] Yeah. I just never, ever get tired of it.

[00:03:23] (Kevin) It makes me feel alive when I’m on college campuses and my oldest one will be going college next year. So I have that to look forward to. In addition to the tuition bill.  But we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. Gene, you know how it goes here. This is a podcast for readers by a reader and author to author. We can have that talk as well. But before anybody really gets into deep reading and professional writing, I think they were just somebody that loved to read at heart. Is that your story?

[00:03:53] (Gene) I’m, I’m almost embarrassed to tell this story because my wife and my two daughters who are, you know, thirty-seven and thirty-eight now I believe, still give me a hard time about it. When I was a kid, you know, I was the oldest of four children.   And I grew up on, my dad was a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force career, Air Force, and I grew up on Air Force bases. And my sister was born three years after me. And so there was always a, you know, a little bit of a gap. And to kind of amuse myself, I guess, or maybe avoid boredom as a kid, you know, we had these were still the day, I’m 62 years old, these are the days of encyclopedias. And I would go into, you know, our little den or study or whatever we had in government-provided housing on the Air Force base.

[00:04:48] And I would just pull out A of The Encyclopedia and just start reading.

[00:04:54] And, you know, week after week, month after month, I slowly year after year, I slowly worked my way through A to Z on the encyclopedias. Might have been Britannica, I can’t remember for sure, but that’s what I did. And for whatever reason, I loved reading. And I think part of it was it was simply my companion because, you know, I didn’t have a brother or a sister at the time. So it became, reading became my best friend. And it’s, you know, it’s totally Nerd Hall of Fame kind of stuff. But, I loved it. And I still I have at least three books on my nightstand at any one time. And I’m always trying to cycle through. And even with my travel schedule, I always trying to make a point before I go to bed, read something. So I’ve always loved reading. And I tell, when I go to talk to journalism schools or journalism classes, I tell them the most important thing you can do is read, read anything and everything, because no matter what it is that you read, somehow some way it will make you a better writer.

[00:06:11] (Kevin) I can look back at different articles I’ve read and books I’ve read and just particular quotes, just stick with me and I write them down, and I’m with you all the way on that. But reading, my deep love for reading really didn’t come until an older age. And now I just can’t imagine life without it. If I go a day without reading, I somehow feel out of balance. And it’s not always what I’m reading is profound.

[00:06:36] It just feels like I’m holding up my end as a student. And that’s the way it works for me.  There are about four or five books in my life that I’m, I’m just a better person for having read them.

[00:06:50] And usually I wished I had to read them sooner. Do you have a couple of books that have stuck with you through the years?  (Gene) Fiction or non-fiction?

[00:06:57] Does it matter to you?

[00:06:58] (Kevin) Nonfiction because that’s what the podcast is: Why I read nonfiction.

[00:07:04] (Gene) Well, you know, I, I something like I love reading Aaron Sorkin. And I, I know he writes he writes nonfiction based scripts.

[00:07:19] And I love learning how he tells a story through his scripts. I love how he structures things. So I have found myself, you know, buying his scripts and just reading through them to see how he does story structure.  From a sportsbook standpoint?  I’m probably like a lot of people. You know, John Feinstein’s Season on the Brink. You know, it’s sort of a season with Bob Knight, it was groundbreaking in my profession.

[00:07:52] It was one of the first times that someone had gotten behind the curtain and written a book that just sort of was stunning in its honesty. You know, Jim Bouton’s Ball Four.  You know, that was another book. Buzz Bissinger’s Friday Night Lights.

[00:08:14] (Kevin) That was one of my favorites. Wasn’t that fantastic?

[00:08:17] (Gene) Of course. And, you know, if I had to pick one other one. George Plimpton and it’s not his most well-known book is called Mad Ducks and Bears: Football Revisited. And it’s about him playing for a couple of NFL teams. I loved those kind of books because they did something that hadn’t been done before and they did it in a way that was surprising, eloquent, shocking. But the reporting, the depth of the reporting, the width and breadth of the writing just stopped me in my tracks. And and then from a nonsports, I think it’s the book that that made me want to be a journalist. And it’s a cliche, but it was All the President’s Men by Woodward and Bernstein. And that was a book that when I when I turned and closed the book and put it down, I just thought, even as a kid, wow!  That just seems like a noble profession. And I would like to do that.

[00:09:24] (Kevin) Our guest today is Gene Wojciechowski from ESPN, a reporter for College Gameday. He is also the author of No Excuses: The Making of Head Coach, which he co-authored along with Bob Stoops. Big thanks to Nirvana on beautiful Cape Cod. If you’re looking for a spring, summer or fall vacation getaway. One of the most beautiful places on earth and right on a beautiful freshwater kettle pond. Nirvana is your place. And just, by the way, for anybody, all the books that have been mentioned on this podcast and for a transcript. Log on to my website at why I read non-fiction dot.com. So don’t worry about taking notes. It’s all there for you. And I think you’ll enjoy it immensely because we have some of the other authors and some of the other guests that we’ve had on as well. Gene, do you do you read on airplanes? You spend a lot of time traveling. Does that work for you? Is that good reading time?

[00:10:18] (Gene) It is. It is. I you know, I don’t like reading books on an iPad or Kindle or I mean, nothing against it. I just like a book in my hand. And, you know, nothing gives me greater pleasure than, you know, pulling out a PJ O’Rourke book and just reading it. And and it you know, I do a lot of flying. I’m probably on the road, jeez 120 days a year, give or take, 10 or 15. So, you know, that’s a lot of time on planes. And I like reading. And it’s it helps you pass the time. And I, just,  I don’t know, it it’s never work to me. It’s just, it’s just fun. And again, it might sound kind of geeky or whatever, but I just I just love the feeling of a book in my hand. And I’ve done it all my life. And I’m not about to change now, but I actually like this physical book in my hand and turning those pages.

[00:11:23] (Kevin) Ok. A practical thing, though, let’s say you’re going out on a trip. You know, you’re going to be gone for a few days and maybe you have just a hundred pages left in a book. Have you ever suffered from having too many books packed away in the suitcase and you got charged for extra weight? Or it was just kind of a pain in the ass carrying it all around.  (Gene) No. Huh, huh, huh.

[00:11:41] Well, you know, I just got done reading, Ian O’Connor’s book on Bill Belichick, Belichick: The Making of the Greatest Football Coach of All Time. (Kevin) Yeah. What did you think about that? (Gene) I loved it. You know, Ian’s a colleague of mine and a friend. And, you know, he spent three years researching, reporting that book. And Bill Belichick did not cooperate with him on that book. He didn’t necessarily tell people not to talk to Ian. But I don’t think he encouraged people to talk to Ian.  So I was just jaw dropping the amount of research and reporting and interviews that Ian did.  And it and it just sort of drips off the pages.

[00:12:25] I mean, to me, a great writer, especially of nonfiction, you don’t have to be the best at turning a phrase. You can make up a lot of things with great reporting with just being dogged, and just working at it, and making a call every day. And a good friend of mine and a longtime writer for Sports Illustrated and later with ESPN, Rick Reilly. Once, you know, we just we would talk about writing all the time. He’s written his fair share of books and just said, you know, one more call.  Always make one more call. And so when I was reading Ian’s book, all I could think of was this guy did make one more call. He made 300 more calls! (Kevin) Yeah, he gumshoed it.

[00:13:14] So. But bottom line it for me. Do you feel like you know who Bill Belichick is now and is he different from the man who presents himself in front of the media every NFL Wednesday? Because that’s usually me looking back at him. And I don’t think I know the man well at all. And I cover the team.

[00:13:31] Yeah, well, I felt like I knew him better after reading that book.

[00:13:36] I don’t base it on those. There was a press conference. I’ve covered the NFL and I’ve covered Bill Belichick at times on national games. And I’ve sat in those pressers and rolled my eyes like everybody else has tried to make sense of it all. But reading Ian’s book, I did. I felt like reading by his past and in his in his youth and what formed him and shaped him. It starts to make sense why he is the man he is today and the coach he is today.

[00:14:07] So, yes, I definitely felt like I have a better idea of who he is. I don’t 100 percent, I don’t even think Ian does after that. But if anybody tried his best to convey who Bill Belichick is, I thought that looked good. And I know David Halberstam also wrote a book about Belichick and his father, The Education of a Coach. And so, yeah, bit by bit, I think you can put the puzzle together.

[00:14:34] (Kevin) You can’t always get all the way there, but close is better than an arm’s distance away. Did you read the book about Tiger Woods written by Armen Keteyian and Jeff Benedict?

[00:14:44] (Gene) I did. (Kevin) And what do you think? (Gene) Well, I know Armen and I know what a great reporter he is. Tiger is a tough nut to crack. I know I covered the PGA Tour on a semi regular basis and certainly the majors and the masters and have covered Tiger for, I guess, literally decades.

[00:15:10] He is a difficult person to get past the gates. And he never almost very rarely will cooperate with someone writing a book about him that’s not authorized by him. So, yes, I thought they did a good job in a difficult circumstance. Hank Haney and Jamie Diaz co-authored the book by Hank Haney on Tiger, The Big Miss: My Years Coaching Tiger Woods. And and that gave people sort of an inside look at the world of Tiger. He is he is such a compelling person. But I’m not sure anybody has really written the book on him, partly because he won’t, Tiger makes it difficult.

[00:16:00] (Kevin) Yeah. Yeah. I appreciated the reporter’s tenacity in trying to get uncover all the truth in going all the way back even to his elementary school days in his elementary school teachers and his principal in that regard I appreciate it. And I tell people that haven’t read it, that are curious about reading it, I said it’s not a valentine, but he is an interesting person, period. So if you just want to know what makes a person tick or why they’re so interesting, for better or worse, that’s a good read. All right. Let’s talk about good reads for you. Congratulations on your latest book. How many have you you’ve written? It’s a ton. I can’t list them all. But how many?

[00:16:41] (Gene) That’s OK. Yeah, I think this was number 10. Yeah, I think the bulk of them have been co-authored books. I’ve written a novel. I’ve written one book, which was a labor of Love on the Duke, Kentucky game. Christian Laettner game, I guess is how most people would remember. 1992.  The Last Great Game: Duke vs Kentucky and the 2.1 Seconds That Changed Basketball.

[00:17:01] (Kevin) Gene?  Can I just stop you there? And can we can we talk about that for just a second? Does Christian Laettner have a sense of humor?

[00:17:10] (Gene) He does. It’s Sahara Desert dry, OK? It is. It is four olives in the martini dry. He does. But you have to work to find it and see it. He’s a he is an intense dude, but he couldn’t have been more helpful on that project. And I covered him when he played at Duke. And there was always, what I respected about Christian was if you asked a good question, he gave you a good answer. If you asked a bad question, he didn’t make any effort at all. So part of the challenge of writing that book and interviewing him for that book was asking good questions.

[00:17:57] Well, maybe I asked him a stupid question, because that’s why I asked you the question. “Does he have a sense of humor?” Because I interviewed him about 15 years after he made that shot. And you know how time heals most wounds?  And sometimes even if somebody got one over on somebody else with the benefit of time, you can you can kid about it. I think athletes can do that. And I asked him, I said, Christian, are you at a point in time where you can now say to Coach Pitino, aaaah, I really got you there? And he said, ‘oh, no, I would never kid about something like that!’ And then I was waiting for him. I thought he was deadpanning but he was dead serious.

[00:18:33] (Gene) Yeah. Yeah. Well, you have to understand, Christian, you know, basketball is a you know, he prays to the religion of basketball. And it’s to some degree who he still is. And I don’t want to say it defined him, but he took it very seriously. It wasn’t it wasn’t a hobby. It was his life. It was his craft. It was his profession. And he lived through basketball. He loved the competitive nature of it. And so he took it unbelievably seriously. So a sense of humor in the classic sense, no, but extremely intelligent, but very, very different. If you asked Coach K who his favorite player is of all time, he might say Bobby Hurley because Hurley reflected to who K was. But if you ask him who is the most intriguing, compelling player he ever had? I would I would put a large amount of money that he would say Christian Laettner.

[00:19:42] (Kevin) Well, I will say this. I give Christian Laettner a lot of credit for when the 30 for 30 came out with the title: I hate Christian Laettner. He was on board. What a marketing boon that was. (Gene) He loved it. (Kevin) It was it was fantastic. So I I had a good laugh at that. And I hope he he did as well. Our guest today is Gene Wojciechowski from ESPN. He is the author of No Excuses: The Making of a Head Coach. Thank you once again to Nirvana on beautiful Cape Cod for sponsoring the program.

[00:20:13] So tell me about Bob Stoops. I love.

[00:20:17] I love the story of anybody that grew up in Ohio. He really was the quintessential football player from Ohio, wasn’t he, before he had some fame at the University of Iowa and then later at OU.

[00:20:30] (Gene) Well, he’s you know, my family, my mom’s family, my grandmother, they came over off the boat from Italy and settled in Warren, Ohio. And Bob Stoops, his family was just right down the road in Youngstown, Ohio. And if you’re not familiar with that part of the world, back in the day when Bob was growing up, I think he was born in 1960. It was it was, you know, total steel town. It was, you know, the Tom Cruise movie, the football movie: All the Right Moves. And that’s that’s the kind of town he grew up in. And so, you know, Catholic, immigrants, neighborhood, you know, fights, Boom Boom Ray Mancini was one of his neighbors. You know, it was it was that that Americana steel town with, you know, really rough around the edges, blue collar, you know, everybody speaking different languages in the city. And then came, you know, what they call Black Monday, which was basically the beginning of the end of the steel industry in that in that part of the country. So, yeah. He was raised on football, on family, on steel. His dad was a legendary high school football coach at Cardinal Mooney in Youngstown. So, you know, he grew up with his dad watching, you know, game film on the refrigerator. And, you know, that’s what he knew. And as a as a kid, he wasn’t a big kid, but he would hit the living hell out of you. And that’s how he was when he played at Iowa. And that’s how he coach, too.

[00:22:22] (Kevin) He took over the OU program in ’99. That right?

[00:22:27] (Gene) Yes.

[00:22:27] Ninety nine.  (Kevin) And it was on the downside for a while? (Gene) Well,

[00:22:33] the program he took over, we see you OU now and we think it’s always sort of been that way. But when he took over that program, it was in ruins. You know, John Blake had been the coach before Blake. There was Howard Schnellenberger, Gibbs, it was in total disarray. So what he did over his 18 plus years of Oklahoma was piece together a really proud, once proud program that Barry Switzer had built and Bud Wilkinson and he made it his own. But he embraced the OU past. And so in his second year at OU he won a national championship. And then over the course of the remaining course of his career there. OU, it’s incredible when you look at the numbers: the conference championships, his won-loss record, the all Americans, Heisman Trophy winners, he created a legacy there and did it in a humble fashion, which is what I really respect about him. But he created something there that will be tough to beat.

[00:23:42] (Kevin) You personalize him because you didn’t, it wasn’t just a valentine to him in all ways, he’s had struggle. He’s been humbled by the game. He’s been humbled by life. There’s been tragedy in his life. I think the one constant that was there throughout was his relationship with his wife, Carol. And you tell a darling story about the first time that they met, and just how she was always there for him through the years. So why don’t you tell me about Bob and Carol.

[00:24:09] (Gene) Well, let me just back up for one second. You know, like I said, this was my 10th book, and I’d have to add up the numbers. Let’s say it’s six or seven co-authored books. And the question I always ask every person before we undertake this sort of project is I would love to talk to you about writing a book. I just have to know that you want to write an honest book. And I think you owe that to the person who’s putting down twenty five bucks to buy the book. You have to write an honest book. And so when you’re dealing with somebody who’s writing their life story, their memoir, the temptation for them is to is to I don’t know, sugarcoat it a little bit, and make it a valentine to themselves.  In Bob’s case he simply he wasn’t interested in doing that. He was willing to talk about the good and the bad and his failures and his successes and not be afraid to take the blame. And so for every win, he wasn’t afraid to discuss the losses. So but to the point about, Carol, you know, we’re all partly defined by the people that we love. And he met Carol, at the University of Iowa. And it was it was one of those chance meetings that anybody who’s gone to college or you’re at a bar, you know, the music is playing. It’s crowded and you spot somebody across the room.

[00:25:49] And he spotted this this petite blonde and just was taken with her. And and through it, just a series of, you know, chance meetings, you know, at a bar. He got to know, Carol.  He met her and they just sort of, again, almost entirely by chance, began to build a friendship that turned into a relationship, that turned into marriage. And in typical Bob fashion, you know, he proposed to her like at a burger joint in Iowa City and did it in a way that, you know, I think Carol thought, and the way he puts it in the book, that, you know, the way he phrased it was almost like he was asking her to pass the ketchup bottle from on the table. And he sort of did it in a nonchalant way, “Do you want to marry me?”  But they’ve been together ever since. And he’s become, she’s become his rock. And when he decided to step away from the game, he came back from practice, an early morning practice, and as she was getting up and sort of, you know, getting her act together, he knelt down next to her and just said, “I don’t think I can do this anymore.” So, you know, you only tell that to a person that you entirely trust, that you entirely love. And Carol has been that that rock for him from day one.

[00:27:23] (Kevin) See, that’s a beautiful thing. I think one of the most compelling questions and one of the most welcomed questions you can ask people in addition to what are you reading, is how did you meet your wife, or your spouse? Because it puts them in a happy place and it makes them think about like why their relationship matters. And they’ll often give more than you might expect. And so when as you were telling me about Bob’s relationship with Carol, I’m thinking about Tom Coughlin and his wife. And just because when you see them in the proper settings where he’s talking about how she was there for him at all times, it’s like I don’t know if we know this man as we know him, if he didn’t have that strong woman behind him. And I also think about Jack Nicklaus and Barbara Nicklaus.

[00:28:14] (Gene) Well, you make a great point. And here’s why. Because especially in that profession, when you’re a coach or you’re a player, especially a golfer, which is such a solitary profession, and when you’re when you’re a coach, when it’s you basically against the world. You need one person, you can trust.  You need that one person you can look in the eye and you can tell exactly how you feel. (Kevin) And to make yourself vulnerable to, and to get on your knees and say, I can’t do this anymore.

[00:28:50] Who else could you tell that to?  (Gene) Exactly.

[00:28:53] And, you know, it’s funny that you say that about asking someone, how did you meet your spouse? I do that all the time. And to your point, you almost always, you know, get a get a smile and then get a great story. And everybody loves talking about how they met their spouse. And so I think that’s really perceptive of you to recognize and acknowledge that, because that that really is important, especially to coaches and sports figures who who have to build walls around themselves to survive at times. And inside those walls is the spouse. And it makes such a huge difference.

[00:29:40] (Kevin) And sometimes a father figure. We know that with Bill Belichick and his late father, Steve. (Gene) And with Bob Stoops. (Kevin) And with Bob and his father. Like, how close were they? And then the loss of his father, and the circumstances, what kind of a profound impact did that have on him?

[00:29:57] (Gene) Well, I can real I can relate a lot to Bob’s story, because I grew up in a military family.

[00:30:04] My father was very no nonsense and a lot of tough love. And there, you know, it wasn’t touchy feely. You know, I think The Great Santini: A Novel. And that was sort of Bob’s upbringing, too. Of course, his parents loved him. Of course, his father loved him. But it wasn’t friends, you know, I mean, like these days, and I’m dating myself. But when I was growing up, your parents weren’t your friends they were your parent.

[00:30:37] (Kevin) My parents told me specifically time and time again, “I am not your friend. I am your parent!”

[00:30:44] (Gene) Right. And that’s how it was in Bob’s house. And his father was a longtime high school football coach, a teacher at this very fine Catholic high school, Cardinal Mooney in Youngstown. And, you know, if you grew up in that era, there just wasn’t there wasn’t a lot of dialogue. So but Bob respected his dad, worshipped his dad in a way that the people from that era worshipped their parents, respected their parents, obeyed their parents. And, you know, when Bob was at Iowa as a freshman, he hated it. And he came home during Thanksgiving and he begged his dad to let him let him leave Iowa. And finally, his dad had had enough with it. And he stopped him he said, “Look, you want to be like every other chickenshit guy who lives here and then comes back and then does nothing for the rest their lives?  You go ahead. But I’m not letting you do that right now.” And that was the law. So, you know, that was that was a good way of defining the relationship between Bob and his dad. And, you know, Bob’s brothers who all played football, two of them went on to become head coaches at major universities.

[00:32:05] So, you know, that was the dynamic back then. But, you know, Bob’s dad died, literally died on a high school football sideline. He had a heart attack during a game while coaching against his oldest son, who was a coach on the other team. And that was a night that Bob and nobody connected that family will ever forget. And it had something to do with Bob’s decision to walk away. You know, when your dad dies at age 54, my dad died at age 52 of a heart attack. Again, it was it was something that connected the dots between Bob and I when we’re doing the book. But you know that that stays with you, and it helps shape the decisions that you’re going to make in your life. And in Bob’s case, it was I’m not going to coach till I’m however old. You know, Bill Snyder old. I saw what happened to my dad. And I’m not going to let that happen to me.

[00:33:12] (Kevin) Yeah, see, that’s a profound thing and as you tell me that story I think of Urban Meyer stepping down at Ohio State. You see things around you and you’re just like, this is not for me. This isn’t how I want my story to end. Well, our story has come to an end.  Gene, I really appreciate you taking the time and congratulations on your book. And anytime you want to come back you’re always welcome here. OK, my man?

[00:33:36] (Gene) Kevin, this was a pleasure. Thanks for thanks so much for letting me chat with you. I love talking about books and very kind of you to have me.

[00:33:43] (Kevin) All right. Where can people reach you on social media? Twitter, gimme the handles so I can help.

[00:33:48] (Gene) I’m @GenoEspn, and that’s my my Twitter account. And then if you ever want to e-mail. It’s easy. gene.wojciechowski@espn.com.

[00:33:59] (Kevin) Ok. That’s perfect. Hey, Gene, all the best. Let’s let’s check in again and have a great time on the road. I wish you nothing but the best. Take care, all right, my man. (Gene) Thank you, my friend. (Kevin) All right. For Gene Wojciechowski, your I’m Kevin Walsh. Thank you for listening to another edition of Why I Read Nonfiction.  For links to his book, No Excuses: The Making of a Head Coach that he co-authored with Bob Stoops and his other books and all the books that we discussed here, log on to my website at why I read nonfiction.com. Thank you to Nirvana on Cape Cod for sponsoring the program. If you’re looking for a great vacation getaway in the spring, summer, fall, Nirvana is your place.

[00:34:39] So we’ll leave it at that, and we’ll be back another time with another edition of Why I read nonfiction. Keep reading, keep talking and sharing stories.  For Gene I’m Kevin. See you again soon.

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